FFF - FediForum Follow-Ups

Hey.. everyone who was at FediForum. Let's talk about how we can help move Portable Identity forward.

First up.. do we want to have another online discussion? I'm happy to host a Zoom call, if that helps everyone.

@sturmsucht@mastodon.social
@chadkoh@indieweb.social
@jesseplusplus@mastodon.social
@benpate@mastodon.social
@georgiagemo@mastodon.social
@mizkirsten@mastodon.social
@reiver@mastodon.social
@scott@loves.tech
@scott@codejournal.dev
@scott@codejournal.dev
@raphael@mastodon.communick.com
@scottjenson@social.coop
@benpate@mastodon.social
@nigini@social.coop
@j12t@j12t.social
@snarfed.bsky.social@bsky.brid.gy
@damonoutlaw.xyz@bsky.brid.gy
@mapache@hachyderm.io
@phillycodehound@indieweb.social
@jamesmarshall@sfba.social
@evan@cosocial.ca
@cypherhippie@chaos.social
@islekcaganmert.me@bsky.brid.gy
@tom@tomkahe.com
@jesseplusplus@mastodon.social
@matt@writing.exchange

Hello, #FediForum attendees

I've made this NodeBB group as a way for us to keep the discussion going from the conference. Please look around?

There are three separate groups, in line with Ryan's comment about the three loosely related issues surrounding payments on the Fediverse, so please check out these three separate boards. I believe you can follow each topic individually, to get inbox notifications about the discussion

Paying Developers

Paying Communities

Paying Artists & Creatives

--
@benpate@mastodon.social
@Jeremiah@alpaca.gold
@reiver@mastodon.social
@cubicgarden@mas.to
@jesseplusplus@mastodon.social
@j12t@j12t.social
@snarfed.bsky.social@bsky.brid.gy
@scottjenson@social.coop
@mcorbettwilson@mastodon.social
@nextgraph@fosstodon.org
@silverpill@mitra.social

Hello! This group is a continuation of our discussion at #FediForum where we can collect and organize all of our ideas around making sustainable communities on the Fediverse by funding specific hosting platforms, servers, and instances. It's likely a temporary group we can use to work out our goals, deliverables, and where we'd like to have a permanent home for this discussion.

In the spirit of an un-conference, I'm happy to follow this discussion wherever it leads, but I think it would be helpful for us to first work out what our goals are and how we'd like to accomplish them.

Also, I think this group is probably not launching any new protocols or standards. But, I think we can probably make a guidebook of recommendations for developers who are looking to navigate this space.

So here's my starter seed for an agenda:

• Schedule follow-on meetings over Zoom <- This is probably our best starting place.
• Identify common ways that servers raise money.
• Discuss features that can be added to software to facilitate this (subscriptions? paid badges? payments revenue sharing?)
• Make a list of recommendations based on past experiences.
• What else do we want to deliver as a result of this group. What does "success" look like?

Please help to take good notes. We will publish them on fediforum.org like we did after previous events.

Data and Account Portability: ...
Convener of the session: Dmitri Z. @dmitri@social.coop

Slides: https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1SSFrS2ke2tqMZrRUGyIPsOXIfS62qZFu0JcyBVSz9rI/

Attendees (please add your own name here if you would like to be listed. There is no obligation.)
Charles Iliya Krempeaux @reiver@mastodon.social
Scott M. Stolz @scott@loves.tech @scott@codejournal.dev @scott.codejournal.dev
Raphael Lullis @raphael@communick.com
bumblefudge.com
Scott Jenson @scottjenson@social.coop
Ben Pate @benpate@mastodon.social
Nigini Oliveira @nigini@social.coop
Johannes Ernst https://j12t.org @j12t@j12t.social @j12t.org
Ryan Barrett @snarfed.org
Damon, @damonoutlaw.xyz
Maho Pacheco @mapache@hachyderm.io
Seth Goldstein @phillycodehound@indieweb.social << https://social.sethgoldstein.me
James Marshall @jamesmarshall@sfba.social
Evan Prodromou acct:evan@cosocial.ca
Paul Fuxjaeger @cypherhippie@chaos.social
Cagan Mert Islek, @islekcaganmert.me@bsky.brid.gy
Tom Casavant @tom@tomkahe.com
David Rowley
Jesse Karmani @jesseplusplus@mastodon.social
Matt Baer @matt@writing.exchange

Website (if the subject has one): ...

Notes
We are trying to do on the Open Social Web what email accomplished

• You can dowload your emails and contacts and move to another email provider.

We have tiny windows of portability on Web 2 (and its platforms)

• sometimes parts of your data
• but generally they lock in your social graph.

Can we do better? YES!

• We want to EXPORT data (not only posts, but also interactions and media), identifiers, as well as the social graph

• AND IMPORT

• Automated

• Dmitry asked developers interested in this to join: https://www.w3.org/community/socialcg/

• Dmitry: checkout: https://swicg.github.io/activitypub-data-portability/lola.html

Current efforts:
- DTI & LOLA: (online portability) https://swicg.github.io/activitypub-data-portability/lola.html

Connection with Cory's remedies for enshitification:
- a core affordance is easy portability between difference service providers!!!

Q: what are the groups we can contribute to to make this happen?

• How can we get to having the "migration button" (some service providers are blocked for a lack of clarity on how to move forward)
• Comment: Hubzilla has implemented a lot of what is been discussed!
• FEP-c390 - Identity proofs
• identity is not associated to a server

A: Roadmap as proposed by Data Portability Work Group

• FEP-7952

Q: What is the strucuture of the problem?
- Export protocol
- Content addressing/format
- Identify mapping?
- Post migration
- Huge issues for modation
- ...

Hubzilla, Streams, Forte, and Mitra are working on a solution:

Client-side keys

Links
FEP-7952: Roadmap For Actor and Object Portability (see References section for many relevant FEPs)
FEP-73cd: Migration User Stories
FEP-6fcd: Account Export Container Format and FEP-9091: Export Actor Service Endpoint
FEP-cd47: Federation-friendly Addressing and Deduplication Use-Cases - Content-addressing <> DATA Portability considerations
FediMOD FIRES tooling for portable/interoperable moderation records (WIP) - re-moderating or checking for moderation history at time of import can use FIRES if exporting/prior server also supports it
https://erinkissane.com/notes-from-a-mastodon-migration
https://github.com/tweetback/tweetback
Identity Proofs - https://codeberg.org/fediverse/fep/src/branch/main/fep/c390/fep-c390.md

Howdy, @redegelde@mastodon.social

If there's a connection here to the discussion about portable identity, I'm sorry.. I don't understand it from your post.

Can you please help us with a little more context, or try to keep your replies here on topic?