FFF - FediForum Follow-Ups

Sure! This should be open to everyone, so feel free to just jump in.

I think there's an FEP with user stories, too. I'll go find that and link to it

Sorry I've been quiet, here.

Following up on Anca's suggestion, I've just made an Etherpad to collect our ideas into a single collaborative document. If there's anything you have to share that DOESN'T fit into this discussion format, please feel free to add it to: https://emissary.wiki/p/Payments

Hey all, sorry I've been quiet here. Following Anca's suggestion, I've set up an Etherpad where we can collect information. Check it out at: https://emissary.wiki/p/Identity

I'm trying to collect everything we have here so far. Please help by adding your insights as well.

Sorry I've been quiet here. Here's the good news: I've finally made good on Anca's suggestions and have set up an Etherpad for this. I agree, a collaborative document will work much better. I'm pretty new with Etherpad, so please let me know if there are some settings I should configure.

Let's collect our ideas/suggestions here: https://emissary.wiki/p/Identity
This forum will be a good place for discussions. Hopefully the two will work well together. Let's see how we do.
This forum can be a good place to discuss the

Thanks. It looks like there’s more I need to do on this server. I’ll get emails going.

Fantastic idea and great points. Does this forum work as a common doc, or do you have another place you'd recommend?

(I kinda wish we had a distributed wiki, but those are just starting to come around)

I'm with you 100% about shipping small solutions, not waiting for enormous ones.

Hello, #FediForum attendees

I've made this NodeBB group as a way for us to keep the discussion going from the conference. Please look around?

There are three separate groups, in line with Ryan's comment about the three loosely related issues surrounding payments on the Fediverse, so please check out these three separate boards. I believe you can follow each topic individually, to get inbox notifications about the discussion

Paying Developers

Paying Communities

Paying Artists & Creatives

--
@benpate@mastodon.social
@Jeremiah@alpaca.gold
@reiver@mastodon.social
@cubicgarden@mas.to
@jesseplusplus@mastodon.social
@j12t@j12t.social
@snarfed.bsky.social@bsky.brid.gy
@scottjenson@social.coop
@mcorbettwilson@mastodon.social
@nextgraph@fosstodon.org
@silverpill@mitra.social

Howdy, @redegelde@mastodon.social

If there's a connection here to the discussion about portable identity, I'm sorry.. I don't understand it from your post.

Can you please help us with a little more context, or try to keep your replies here on topic?

@scottjenson@social.coop

Awesome! You're here, you're in.

I'm still working out the nuances of NodeBB, but I believe you can follow each of the topic categories to get updates in your inbox.

Hey.. everyone who was at FediForum. Let's talk about how we can help move Portable Identity forward.

First up.. do we want to have another online discussion? I'm happy to host a Zoom call, if that helps everyone.

@sturmsucht@mastodon.social
@chadkoh@indieweb.social
@jesseplusplus@mastodon.social
@benpate@mastodon.social
@georgiagemo@mastodon.social
@mizkirsten@mastodon.social
@reiver@mastodon.social
@scott@loves.tech
@scott@codejournal.dev
@scott@codejournal.dev
@raphael@mastodon.communick.com
@scottjenson@social.coop
@benpate@mastodon.social
@nigini@social.coop
@j12t@j12t.social
@snarfed.bsky.social@bsky.brid.gy
@damonoutlaw.xyz@bsky.brid.gy
@mapache@hachyderm.io
@phillycodehound@indieweb.social
@jamesmarshall@sfba.social
@evan@cosocial.ca
@cypherhippie@chaos.social
@islekcaganmert.me@bsky.brid.gy
@tom@tomkahe.com
@jesseplusplus@mastodon.social
@matt@writing.exchange

Please help to take good notes. We will publish them on fediforum.org like we did after previous events.

Data and Account Portability: ...
Convener of the session: Dmitri Z. @dmitri@social.coop

Slides: https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1SSFrS2ke2tqMZrRUGyIPsOXIfS62qZFu0JcyBVSz9rI/

Attendees (please add your own name here if you would like to be listed. There is no obligation.)
Charles Iliya Krempeaux @reiver@mastodon.social
Scott M. Stolz @scott@loves.tech @scott@codejournal.dev @scott.codejournal.dev
Raphael Lullis @raphael@communick.com
bumblefudge.com
Scott Jenson @scottjenson@social.coop
Ben Pate @benpate@mastodon.social
Nigini Oliveira @nigini@social.coop
Johannes Ernst https://j12t.org @j12t@j12t.social @j12t.org
Ryan Barrett @snarfed.org
Damon, @damonoutlaw.xyz
Maho Pacheco @mapache@hachyderm.io
Seth Goldstein @phillycodehound@indieweb.social << https://social.sethgoldstein.me
James Marshall @jamesmarshall@sfba.social
Evan Prodromou acct:evan@cosocial.ca
Paul Fuxjaeger @cypherhippie@chaos.social
Cagan Mert Islek, @islekcaganmert.me@bsky.brid.gy
Tom Casavant @tom@tomkahe.com
David Rowley
Jesse Karmani @jesseplusplus@mastodon.social
Matt Baer @matt@writing.exchange

Website (if the subject has one): ...

Notes
We are trying to do on the Open Social Web what email accomplished

• You can dowload your emails and contacts and move to another email provider.

We have tiny windows of portability on Web 2 (and its platforms)

• sometimes parts of your data
• but generally they lock in your social graph.

Can we do better? YES!

• We want to EXPORT data (not only posts, but also interactions and media), identifiers, as well as the social graph

• AND IMPORT

• Automated

• Dmitry asked developers interested in this to join: https://www.w3.org/community/socialcg/

• Dmitry: checkout: https://swicg.github.io/activitypub-data-portability/lola.html

Current efforts:
- DTI & LOLA: (online portability) https://swicg.github.io/activitypub-data-portability/lola.html

Connection with Cory's remedies for enshitification:
- a core affordance is easy portability between difference service providers!!!

Q: what are the groups we can contribute to to make this happen?

• How can we get to having the "migration button" (some service providers are blocked for a lack of clarity on how to move forward)
• Comment: Hubzilla has implemented a lot of what is been discussed!
• FEP-c390 - Identity proofs
• identity is not associated to a server

A: Roadmap as proposed by Data Portability Work Group

• FEP-7952

Q: What is the strucuture of the problem?
- Export protocol
- Content addressing/format
- Identify mapping?
- Post migration
- Huge issues for modation
- ...

Hubzilla, Streams, Forte, and Mitra are working on a solution:

Client-side keys

Links
FEP-7952: Roadmap For Actor and Object Portability (see References section for many relevant FEPs)
FEP-73cd: Migration User Stories
FEP-6fcd: Account Export Container Format and FEP-9091: Export Actor Service Endpoint
FEP-cd47: Federation-friendly Addressing and Deduplication Use-Cases - Content-addressing <> DATA Portability considerations
FediMOD FIRES tooling for portable/interoperable moderation records (WIP) - re-moderating or checking for moderation history at time of import can use FIRES if exporting/prior server also supports it
https://erinkissane.com/notes-from-a-mastodon-migration
https://github.com/tweetback/tweetback
Identity Proofs - https://codeberg.org/fediverse/fep/src/branch/main/fep/c390/fep-c390.md

Since group initially came together in FediForum and under the FediForum Code of Conduct, so it makes sense for us to continute using this Code of Conduct here.

Please be responsible, constructive, and considerate. If that's too much to ask, then you'll find your posts to this group blocked quickly.

And, if you see posts here that don't belong, please feel free to flag them (under the Post Options pop-up) and we'll take care of it as quickly as we can.

https://swicg.github.io/activitypub-data-portability/lola.html

next meeting is friday 10am PST if memory serves

Slides from FF presentation

The payment processing landscape has changed dramatically in the 10 years since I worked there. If we're going to make marketplaces to pay creatives on the Fediverse, I think it's important to find consumer friendly solutions that work for as many people as possible.

I'll start:

• PayPal is the oldest and probably the best-known way for regular people to get paid online.

• Stripe is a slightly more "techie" focused tool, but they do such a good job with payments, subscriptions, etc, that they just have to be included.

• Shop/Shopify is one that I'm planning to research. They host full shopping carts for small businesses. I believe they have an API for selling from a third-party server. It would be interesting, for example, to see if we could like someone's existing storefront to the Fediverse.

• Interledger is an open solution that I'm still learning about. I can't say how "consumer friendly" this is, or how we'd integrate with it, but I'm going to be digging in to figure out more.

• Taler is an open solution from GNU that I've just learned about, and am still researching.
  --
  In addition, there are lots of services (like ko-fi.com) that wrap PayPal and Stripe. These may still be relevant, but I'd really like to dig deep into the root providers with APIs that we can use directly.

Are there other way that you (or creatives you know) are taking payments online?

RE Meetings: It seems like FediForum meeting times work for everyone, so what if we try to meet on weekends around 8:00 AM Pacific Time (UTC-7)?

Hello! This group is a continuation of our discussion at #FediForum where we can collect and organize ways to facilitate portable identity on the Fediverse. It's likely a temporary group we can use to work out our goals, deliverables, and where we'd like to have a permanent home for this discussion.

In the spirit of an un-conference, I'm happy to follow this discussion wherever it leads, but I think it would be helpful for us to first work out what our goals are and how we'd like to accomplish them.

It's very possible that some new protocol will need to be created, but anything we do should be in the context of previous/existing efforts in this area.

So here's my starter seed for an agenda:

• Schedule follow-on meetings over Zoom <- This is probably our best starting place.
• Catalog existing "portable identity" proposals on the Fediverse.
• Catalog existing "portable identity" technologies in use elsewhere.
• List our goals for a portable identity solution.
• Make our recommendation for a solution(s) to use.
• Rally support for a single process for enabling portable identity.
• What else do we want to deliver as a result of this group. What does "success" look like?

RE Meetings: It seems like FediForum meeting times work for everyone, so what if we try to meet on weekends around 8:00 AM Pacific Time (UTC-7)?

RE Meetings: It seems like FediForum meeting times work for everyone, so what if we try to meet on weekends around 8:00 AM Pacific Time (UTC-7)?

RE Meetings: It seems like FediForum meeting times work for everyone, so what if we try to meet on weekends around 8:00 AM Pacific Time (UTC-7)?

Hello! This group is a continuation of our discussion at #FediForum where we can collect and organize all of our ideas around making sustainable communities on the Fediverse by funding specific hosting platforms, servers, and instances. It's likely a temporary group we can use to work out our goals, deliverables, and where we'd like to have a permanent home for this discussion.

In the spirit of an un-conference, I'm happy to follow this discussion wherever it leads, but I think it would be helpful for us to first work out what our goals are and how we'd like to accomplish them.

Also, I think this group is probably not launching any new protocols or standards. But, I think we can probably make a guidebook of recommendations for developers who are looking to navigate this space.

So here's my starter seed for an agenda:

• Schedule follow-on meetings over Zoom <- This is probably our best starting place.
• Identify common ways that servers raise money.
• Discuss features that can be added to software to facilitate this (subscriptions? paid badges? payments revenue sharing?)
• Make a list of recommendations based on past experiences.
• What else do we want to deliver as a result of this group. What does "success" look like?